This week we're featuring a short fiction story called 'Best of Three', by the London-based writer E.J. Fry. Read the full story here.
E.J. Fry lives, works and writes in London, England. His work has recently been published in Litro, Orca and Juxtaprose, as well as being short and longlisted for prizes in the UK and beyond.
Recently Angela Thoma – one of our fiction editors – talked to Fry about his new story, his work, and his inspirations. Here's a transcript of their conversation:
Angela Thoma: I thought we would just start the conversation by asking you to share the initial spark of inspiration behind the conception of this story. What led you to explore this unique encounter between an ex-husband and the man his wife had this affair with?
E. J. Fry: I was guiltily reading stuff, which I feel I should have been reading 20 or 30 years ago. I was reading a really old bit of some Salinger story … and I read this paragraph, and I thought that's perhaps just the best introductory paragraph I've ever read. And then I realized he hadn't used it as an introductory paragraph. He's buried halfway in the story.
I just thought, what if I took that structure to write an introduction? But I think he was off talking about cigarettes and women and so I thought, what about the three best hot dogs you've ever had? And, I don't know, just a voice came through, I guess, partly because it's Salinger, partly because I've been watching too much Seinfeld at the time.
I had this paragraph just sitting there, this intro waiting to go. As soon as I had a clear couple of hours where you've actually got time to flesh it out, it came really quite quickly by that first draft, which needs so much work, but that was the birth of it.
But then I think also what I was really interested in was the idea of a juxtaposition of, so he's excited about these hot dogs, and what's going to immediately undermine that or sour that or be something the reader doesn't expect.
Angela Thoma: I'm just so curious, what drew you to this setting for such a pivotal moment, and how would you say this reflects the broader themes of the story?
E. J. Fry: It's a mixture of things. So partly personal experience, and I think anyone who's experienced the heat, humidity, of New York summer … no one can be at their best. You know? Certainly, I'm not my best. And so, again, thinking what would be just a really testing atmosphere?
But then also combining that with – it's not an entirely British sensibility – but if you are going to have a confrontation with someone, having to do it in public … it's the last place you'd want to do it. And so I'm just trying to create all that awkwardness, that unpleasantness, that uncomfortableness, but without making it nasty or cruel, but just this poor guy. Of course, I'm wearing my wife's slides.
Then also for him not to have quite enough self awareness to realize that he's also absurd and ridiculous in making half of these problems for himself. So it's a bit of a tension between having some sympathy for the guy and then also wanting to whack him around the head a bit and say, get a grip.
Angela Thoma: I think the narrator's lack of self awareness is just one of the really entertaining parts in the story. And I think the story has this subtle shift from the narrator's desire for confrontation to this moment of really unexpected insight. And I'm just curious how you crafted this transition, what you think it suggests about the narrator's journey of self awareness and maybe a little bit about what you would hope readers take from that?
E. J. Fry: Yeah. it's dangerous to get on some high horse here, but I think anger rarely serves any of us well, and it's interesting to think, “so what's underneath that and what's driving that?” I think that's not to say it isn't a valid emotion, and I think I'd never want to write something which is too neat and tidy, and, of course, all that drama and tension and and all those negative emotions make for entertainment, ultimately.
But I think they also are so much more entertaining, so much richer if they're driven by a recognizable weakness. If you just got someone who is angry all the time that's as two dimensional as someone who's happy all the time, and there's a writing note I either got given or more likely stole years ago.
And so where in their journey are they? It feels to me that the narrator is just in a … part of that breakup where, yes, all that anger is there, but the hurt and loneliness and what comes next is, you know, paramount.
I think for anyone who's been through a breakup, that cycle of emotions that you're on feels almost perpetual and exhausting in its own right.
Angela Thoma: One of the things that really does make this story as unique is this almost, wonderfully neurotic narrator and his voice in particular. I'm just curious if you want to talk a little bit more about how you developed his voice and what you think his perspective adds to this exploration of failed relationships, which is such a universal thing that I think we all tend to go through.
E. J. Fry: There are a couple of things driving it. I think perhaps some of the early drafts didn't quite have the depth to make it work well. He just ended up … a two dimensional, angry guy. And, yeah, some of the jokes are fine, but there isn't enough to really catch you in. And so you do some thinking about, well, what do I think the background of this person is? And it felt really clear to me that him and Jenny were probably first loves and so he hadn't had that experience of being an adult without her.
I think perhaps after your first breakup, they don't hurt any less, but you know you're probably going to get through it. Whereas that first one really knocks you on your ass.
And then I think there is also something about, he is neurotic, but he's also partly neurotic in the moment. I think being confronted with your wife's affair partner, especially when he seems to be this slightly older guy who's got all his stuff together. It draws the infant out a little bit and you combine that with sometimes people going through breakups don't fully understand … they're just screaming but why? .
Angela Thoma: The narrator is dealing with this sense of inadequacy and self reflection, and I think the story really touches on these themes really beautifully, but it never loses this lighthearted tone. I'm just curious how you really struck this balance and what you're hoping readers take away from that mix of levity and introspection.
E. J. Fry: I'm really pleased to hear that that landed. … When you think about your writing, what two things sit alongside each other well, and when you're cooking or something, what flavor combinations accentuate?
I think real levity and also wallowing a bit accentuates one another, but then I also think in addition it's the absurdity of it all and perhaps there's a version of it you get in big city life where there’s 12 million people living in the city and the one person I'm going to run into at a hotdog stand, of course, is this one guy.
I think that the pity and the levity hopefully accentuate both who he is, but also the ridiculous world we all live in most of the time.
Angela Thoma: That humor really comes out in this piece. I think the story balances humor with this underlying tension of the failed relationship and inadequacy really well. And I'm curious, you know, what role would you say that humor is playing in the narrator's processing of his emotions?
E. J. Fry: It's a really interesting question. The jokes are rarely at his own expense, and that speaks to the narcissistic tendencies. I think he can acknowledge where a situation is absurd, he's like a nine or 10 year old where they're on the cusp of that self awareness, but they're not quite there. He's aware that he's wearing slides and he's got a vegetable peeler in his pocket and he hasn't really fed himself properly for a few days and he's aware that this is a bit stupid but he's still there and he's still a bit mad. He's not caught himself in the reflection of his apartment before he's about to leave and been like “dude, just don't.” You know? So he's aware of the absurdity, but not quite the extent to which he's an absurdity.
Angela Thoma: What would you say that the role of humor is in addressing these more serious things: betrayal, self reflection? Is this a way to make these things more accessible, or is it about maybe staying true to this complexity of life?
E. J. Fry: I think it's a little of both, but I would also add, I think most people are tremendously funny if you catch them, there are always one or two who prove the point otherwise. But I think if you catch most people on a good day or in a situation in which they're incredibly comfortable … most people have a real wit. And I think it's a real shame to deny them that.
It doesn't mean that there has to be a joke every other paragraph, but I think the vast majority of us can, if not always laugh at ourselves, certainly laugh at others. Some of my favorite writing is very beautiful, but there will be just one or two lines in there that lift it. Without a bit of humor, any piece of writing feels slightly flat to me or or not capturing perhaps the whole of human experience, which maybe we're not always trying to do with every short story, but it feels essential to me.
Angela Thoma: It feels it's really hitting this blend of humor and emotional depth. How are you discovering that balance resonated with this specific storytelling approach and how do you see humor playing a role in any of your future work as well?
E. J. Fry: I think with this particular story humor was most interesting when trying to create a good ending, which I think many of us struggle with when putting something together satisfactorily. And there are a few versions where I guess, ultimately, I felt I was punching down, and the joke was too much either on the vendor or on the narrator or sometimes on the professor. And none of those felt quite right.
I think it's similar with the piece I'm working on at the moment; I think it's sharpened my understanding of really needing to know the characters you're writing about, because I think then the humor is part of who they are and their personality, you're not writing material for a stand up gig. It's been quite interesting trying to develop my skill in [humor] and check my ego on some of those jokes as well.
Angela Thoma: I absolutely loved the ending. I think you did a fantastic job. I was very curious where it was going to go, and it took me on such a journey, and I really felt the punch at the end. What do you hope readers really take away from the story?
E. J. Fry: Two things really. One is an emotional impact. I hope they're really left with that sort of a bittersweet feeling that ultimately this guy is still left in the middle of New York City holding a hot dog. He still hasn't got his wife. He's not having a good Sunday however he paints it. He might not be the most likable guy. He's the guy who, if you go to a local bar, you feel sympathetic to him when you see him, but equally, you really hope he doesn't take the stool next to you. It's a bit of empathy for the guy.
But then I think as well, I'd love them to have that pleasant itch, that pleasant curiosity because nothing's resolved. You know? He's still there. Jenny's now single, is he going to see her? Is he going to find her? I personally love short stories which leave you just the right amount of itch. If it's too open at the end, I find it drives me to distraction.
E.J. Fry
E.J. Fry lives, works and writes in London, England. His work has recently been published in Litro, Orca and Juxtaprose, as well as being short and longlisted for prizes in the UK and beyond.
Angela Thomas
Angela, a writer hailing from greater Boston, holds a master's degree in Creative Writing from Trinity College Dublin (2024). She writes short fiction that explores the intricate dynamics of family bonds, the immigrant experience, and the process of cultural assimilation. You can find her most recent work in New Square, the official publication of the Sancho Panza Literary Society. In addition to her creative pursuits, Angela's journalistic contributions have appeared in numerous Massachusetts newspapers and prominent online platforms, including MarketScale, Killing Kittens, and Fabl. She is currently working on her first novel.
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